By Keighla Schmidt, Staff Writer
Savage residents turned out in record numbers Tuesday night (Feb. 5) to cast their ballots for presidential nominees, discuss politics and elect delegates.
Between the two parties, over 1,000 Savage citizens cast ballots in the straw poll for their favorite presidential candidate.
Overall, voters from Savage picked nominees that were consistent with Minnesota’s winners. In Savage, Barack Obama garnered 63 percent of the Democratic vote, which was similar to his statewide tally, where he took in 67 percent. For the Republicans, Mitt Romney captured 52 percent of the Republican vote in Savage, higher than the 42 percent statewide.
“It was sheer pandemonium,” said Senate District 35 DFL Chairman Howard Bass. “It was just insane.”
Bass said a record number of Democratic caucus participants showed up – as there were 677 from Savage and over 2,500 in Senate District 35. The previous record was 650 people for the whole district.
For Bass, the high turnout indicates a need for change in the pre-November process in Minnesota.
“This could prove to be the catalyst for Minnesota ditching the caucus system and switching to a presidential primary route,” he said. “Caucuses just aren’t sufficient, there’s not enough time in an hour and a half to get everything done.”
On the Republican side, turnout was also higher than in previous years.
“I’ve been involved in caucuses for over 10 years and this was the highest I’ve seen since I’ve been doing this,” said Republican Senate District 35 Chairwoman Cindy Whitehair. “Last election we had about a third of the people we had this year.”
While not as highly-attended as the Democratic caucuses, 354 Republicans from Savage and 1,394 from Senate District 35 participated, and some of the precincts ran out of ballots for the presidential straw poll.
Many of the attendees had never been to a caucus.Whitehair said in Precinct 7, Savage’s newest precinct, everyone was a novice. “Everyone in there – all 46 people -- were new caucus attendees,” she said.
As a first-time caucuser, 28-year-old Jason Erdman, went to Prior Lake High School to cast his vote for Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney. “Everyone was saying ‘McCain has this one wrapped up,’ and I wanted to come and put a vote in for Romney,” Erdman said.
Overall, Erdman said he thought this election was of high importance in many ways and wanted to make sure Republicans stayed in control. “There is more at stake in this election -- the Dems want to push a socialist agenda closer to Marxism than to traditional U.S. values,” he said.
Ashley Mickelson, 24, who had also never attended a caucus, saw things very differently that Erdman.
Identifying with the values of the Democratic Party, Mickelson went to Glendale Elementary to secure a spot for the DFLers. “I really want a Democrat in office. But it’s really hard to choose between the two great nominees,” she said. “Ultimately, the question is ‘Do I want the first woman as president or the first black man as president?’”
Participation in the caucus was her way, she said, of influencing change.
For others, it was an opportunity to learn about the candidates, the political process and discuss ideas.
Seventeen-year-old Alanna McFall will be eligible to vote in November. While she already labels her personal ideals as “socially liberal,” she wanted to come to the caucus to become an active participant in politics and settle on a candidate, as she was teetering between Hillary Clinton and Obama.
“I really don’t think the Republican administration has done what I’m looking for. But, I want to be an informed voter,” McFall said. “As a young voter, I feel we (as young people) have to live in this world, too, and it’s important we get out and vote -- it’s really vital.”
Prior Lake High School students Kristen McCuskey and Chae Alverio, both 18, went back and forth between the Republican and Democratic caucuses and were observing for a class, but also to make sure they were being responsible voters.
“It’s our job as youth of America … to find the best fit by being active, it’s what I need to do,” Alverio said. “It’s pointless to vote for who others tell you to (vote for); you should vote for the person who will best represent you.”
McCuskey said she hoped to make up her mind through the discussions.“I kind of have an idea, I took a quiz online to know which nominee would be the best fit for me, but I want to listen and hear what people have to say,” McCuskey said. “The caucuses really influence people; they can hear what each candidate has to say about issues now.”
Keighla Schmidt can be reached at kschmidt@swpub.com.

Too bad all this enthusiasm...
Back to page topToo bad all this enthusiasm and turnout has no impact on the national party choices for nominations since these caucus votes are nonbinding and thus no delegates are tied to the process. We need a primary election so our votes make a difference!
I would disagree. I don't...
Back to page topI would disagree. I don't think it has "no impact."
The power people create by coming together and turning out in record numbers to be politically active should not be underestimated.
In years past, people across the state didn't participate in the caucuses, (now if that was because the candidates had already been decided upon by that point or because they weren't aware, or simply didn't care I'm not sure) now, however, like Howard Bass said, this could be the catalyst. We have proven we're capable and interested, so perhaps this caucus change things.
It certainly had the effect...
Back to page topIt certainly had the effect of alienating and angering a lot of people who had to wait for hours to get in to their caucus and in some cases had to vote on a post-it note or didn't get to vote at all. There is no good reason to not have an all-day primary so people can vote when it is convenient for them. Requiring people to vote in such a narrow window of time is about as undemocratic as it gets.
I'd rather have primaries as...
Back to page topI'd rather have primaries as well. But voter turnout on the democratic side has been at an all-time high all across the nation for both primaries and caucases, so I don't think it has alienated too many people.
Who really is the party to...
Back to page topWho really is the party to blame for not having ample supplies? I'm be pretty confident in my guess that organizers budgeted based on previous years' turnouts, and probably even tried to have extra "just in case."
Had people participated before and had the numbers up higher they would have had more ballots and been able to go to a better location.
An all-day primary in a state that wasn't particularily historically politically active, especially prior to the actual election, isn't practical. The money involved in a primary is steep. Why spend money on it when people didn't produce? Now, however we've raised the bar and perhaps it will change.
The caucuses are fine for...
Back to page topThe caucuses are fine for die-hard politicos who want to be involved in that aspect of the process. For most people, a chance to vote for the person of their choice is their main concern if they are concerned at all. Again, limiting the time when people can cast that ballot goes against Minnesota's long tradition of making it easier, not harder, to vote.
Plenty of people locally were alienated on both sides of the aisle if you read and/or watched the news in the days following the MN caucuses.
Don't read too much in to more democrats than republicans turning out for caucuses and primaries nation-wide, just like you shouldn't really pay much attention to national popular vote polls. Last I checked, we still are a republic and elect our president based on the electoral college results. McCain will pick off a lot of independent voters who long have loved him.
Also, the democrats worst nightmare is unfolding. They will fight amongst themselves all the way to their convention at this rate while McCain can concentrate on the general election campaign in fairly short order.
Folks, that is straight from...
Back to page topFolks, that is straight from Fox News!!
I have conservative friends, who won't vote for McCain because he is not a conservative. You have the morons like Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter say they will vote for Hillary if McCain they both win the nomination.
I think the Republican party is more in turmoil than the Dems are. Look at how strong Mike Huckabee is doing in the south all of a sudden. The Dems have two A+ candidates and whichever wins the nomination will have the support of the others base. That is a lock, no matter how far the nomination process goes. But the Dems are united on thing - to end Bush/conservative era that has plagued us for 8 years.
Meanwhile, secretly, the hard-core righties - the base of the party - are willing to lose-to-win this election. Mark that down. Meaning, they would rather suffer through 4 years of Hillary or Obama to get their conservative ducks in the row so to speak to come back strong in 2012 with a candidate that meets all of their conservative principles rather than just some. And to get the house and senate back. I'm telling you they are planning to lose to win this fall.
Heck, Rush has even said it on the record. That's how he wants to see it play out it.
And McCain may be popular with independents, but he's not popular in south, the Bible Belt, where conservatives are traditionally strong. A Republican won't win the White House if he can't clean up in the south. McCain will lose two or three southern states and I don't think he makes it up anywhere else that is meaningful in terms of the electoral college - such as Cally, New York, Penn. and New Jersey.
If my comments were straight...
Back to page topIf my comments were straight from FoxNews, your comments were straight from Air America!!
A+ candidates?!? Wow, that viewpoint comes straight out of left field. Let's see, if they had their way, both Obama and Clinton would have us cut and run from Iraq, legalize gay marriage, socialize health care, and raise taxes exponentially in the process. That may be an A+ in your book, but it is an F for the other half of the country!
Conservatives know how important the Supreme Court is and how important this election is in terms of the future direction of our country. They will unite behind McCain because he is way the lesser of two evils when compared with Obama or Clinton.
Rush has marginalized himself over the last several years and no longer speaks for most conservatives. Coulter is a conservative shock jock who again does not speak for most of us.
I wonder if your bosses at the local paper approve of the term "moron" when referring to other people. Not the most respectful term for a supposed journalist. Guess you didn't learn respect when you were a student at JFK.
Conservatives are going to...
Back to page topConservatives are going to toss this election, just like in 1976.
The righties didn't like Gerald Ford and preferred Ronald Reagan. But Ford (who was on the Warren Commission, which shows you his level of incompatence) was the sitting President, despite how the the righties felt about how Vietnam ended and the general direction on the country. The righties were not big Ford backers.
The righties knew they were going to lose that election, coming off the Nixon era, Vietman, and Ford, who they gave a lot of blame to for how South Vietman fell. So they held fast with Reagan and let Ford take one for the so-called team.
And their strategy worked. Carter had a horrible time running the country that was a mess at the time. The righties predicted it would be the case. Carter failed to deliver and in comes Ronny to save the day. And the next 12 years beloned to the righties.
McCain doesn't have the support of the Evangelicals and far right when it comes to immigration. He's being sacrificed in the same way Ford was - to lose-to-win in 2012. It's a gamble - like in 1976. What if Obama and Clinton do well? What if pulling out of Iraq works?
But the righties are convinced the Hillary and Obama would screw this country up in the way you suggested above that they'd be one-termers like Carter. And the house and senate would then fall back to the righties.
Nobody will come to say all this publicly. Really, who says they are hoping to lose (other than Rush). But that's what's happening. That's why Mitt is out. He was told to leave, even though most conservaties perfer him over the old man and the Arkansas profit.
The righties told Mitt he's in a no-win this fall and it's time to bail. Let's let the 71-year-old take the fall, which will end his run for the presidency once and for all.
And sorry, respectful or not, I call it like I see it. Rush is moron. Heck, those are kind words when referring to him. I can think of a lot worse.
Sounds like a vast right...
Back to page topSounds like a vast right wing conspiracy. Guess it started a lot longer ago than Hillary Clinton thought!
It's easy to look back at history and pretend like you know what people intended to do or not do. Do you know all of the people who voted for Ford or Carter back in 1976? Have you interviewed enough of them to have a statistical sample where you can conclusively say that conservative people willfully pushed the worst president in the history of the USA (Carter) in to the White House on the chance that Reagan would be elected four years later?!? Wow, you have a vivid imagination!!
You give the neocons to much credit. They don't have that kind of power no more so than the ultralibs on the left.
Conservatives are more intelligent than you give us credit for. We know that a moderate Republican is far better than a ultra liberal Democrat and will vote accordingly.
Regarding your use of terms like "moron", it just seems childish for a grown man, and certainly not befitting a former student of Mr. Kuklish.
Jimmy Carter the worst...
Back to page topJimmy Carter the worst president in the history of the U.S.? Not anymore. Not by a longshot!
Who is Mr. Kuklish? Never...
Back to page topWho is Mr. Kuklish? Never heard of him.
Mr. Kuklish taught...
Back to page topMr. Kuklish taught journalism and coordinated the yearbook at Kennedy. My understanding is you graduated from Kennedy. Mr. Kuklish may have been gone by the time you were in high school. He died of cancer in the 1990's.
Doesn't ring a bell....
Back to page topDoesn't ring a bell.
As a Michigander, I must...
Back to page topAs a Michigander, I must defend Gerald Ford. He stepped into a tough situation -- following in the footsteps of Spiro Agnew and Richard Nixon! He was a decent fellow who stepped into a historical moment in time and did as well as anyone could have expected, given the circumstances. Please get out your history book and give the man his due respect.
I'm not bagging on Ford....
Back to page topI'm not bagging on Ford. You're right. He stepped into a tough spot - a no-win situation - and did the best he could. (Although he was on the Warren Commission, which are big points against him).
I'm just saying Ford had little or no chance of winning in 1976 - not after Tricky ******, Agnew, Watergate, the fall of Vietnam and a sluggish post-war economy. The rightnies knew the country was likely going to lean left in the next election and it did. It was time for change. The righties didn't want their golden boy - Reagan - sacrificed in that election and especially at Reagan's age too.
It's not like Nixon, where after losing to Kennedy in 1960, he was still young enough to run again 8 years later. Reagan didn't have that luxury. Reagan was 65-66 in 1976 election. He had one shot and one shot only. So to lose in 1976 might have been the end of Reagan's politcal career. It didn't matter if Ford lost. His politcal career was over anyway.
Both parties from time to...
Back to page topBoth parties from time to time put up a "sacrificial lamb" candidate. The Democrats did it with Walter Mondale in 1984 because they knew they had no chance against Reagan.
John McCain is not a sacrificial lamb candidate. He may not be the first choice of conservatives, but he is conservative enough and when moderates step in to the voting booth, I think most of them will choose McCain over whichever socialist the Democrats nominate.
If it's Obama vs. McCain,...
Back to page topIf it's Obama vs. McCain, Obama will win by Reagan-like proportions. And I love your socialist comment. Very non-partisan.
Here's an interesting note...
Back to page topHere's an interesting note to interject in terms of the choices we have for president in 2008. Who will appeal to the people in the middle? The Pioneer Press had a really interesting opinion piece about this in today's paper (Feb. 12) by Douglas Schoen called "How to attract the group that will decide the election." It made sense. It's not about specific groups of voters, such as the liberals and the conservatives or those who live in specific locations of the country, such as New York or California. It's about the folks in the middle. Here's the link: http://www.twincities.com/opinion/ci_8232346
You are a dreamer if you...
Back to page topYou are a dreamer if you think Obama will beat McCain in a landslide. I have never claimed to be nonpartisan in my posts on this web site. I am conservative and I vote for the conservative candidate. Clinton and Obama would try to make the USA a socialist country so calling them socialists really just puts them in the company they would have us keep.
Because they want to get rid...
Back to page topBecause they want to get rid of tax cuts for the wealthiest 1% in our country during a time of the biggest deficits in our nation's history, that makes them socialists? OK. That's the kind of fear-mongering rhetoric that we've all had to endure during the past seven years, and it's about to come to a screeching halt.
Let's recap what we've gotten out of the Bush administration the past seven years. Let's boil it down to a few buzzwords: Patriot Act, Afghanistan, Iraq, WMD, Bin Laden, Water Boarding, Hunting Accidents, Katrina, Valerie Plame, Scooter Libby, Recession.
I'd say that about covers it. When it comes to elections, the old adage of "are we better off?" has never been more easily applied.
What makes them socialists...
Back to page topWhat makes them socialists is their intent to try to force socialized medicine down our throats, force us to pay for day care, child care, elder care and every other kind of care in between; basically the expansion of the nanny government. Their goal is a massive expansion in the scope and reach of the federal government. That is what makes them socialists.
While the Bush...
Back to page topWhile the Bush administration has been anything but perfect, let's review some of the positives: no attacks on American soil since 9/11, multiple key terrorist leaders brought to justice, the ouster of tyrant Hussein in Iraq, a budding democracy in Iraq, Libya turning over the keys to their nuclear program, No Child Left Behind (don't forget that your pal Teddy Kennedy helped write the thing), and the expansion of ethanol use requirements which has significantly helped MN and other farm states.
I noticed you didn't mention...
Back to page topI noticed you didn't mention fiscal restraint? Oops. Isn't that supposed to be a staple principle among conservatives? I guess I'd rather see our money go toward universal health care or fixing Social Security than pre-emptive wars and tax cuts for Exxon Mobil.
It takes two to tango. Read...
Back to page topIt takes two to tango. Read the Constitution. The Congress appropriates and the President signs the bills. Last I checked, the Dems controlled Congress on the front and back end of Bush's presidency so they, and the Republicans in Congress, are as much or more to blame than the President. Nations at war don't tend to have balanced budgets. Go back to WWII, Vietnam, and Korea and you'll see what I mean.
I know what the Constitution...
Back to page topI know what the Constitution says. Unfortunately, Bush and Co. continue to try to remove Congress from the equation:
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., accused the president and Senate Republicans of being more interested in politicizing intelligence than resolving the debate. Reid said the issue would not even be before Congress if Bush and Vice President ****** Cheney, "in their unyielding efforts to expand presidential powers," had not created a system to conduct wiretapping, including on U.S. citizens, outside the bounds of federal law.
"The president could have taken the simple step of requesting new authority from Congress ... but whether out of convenience, incompetence, or outright disdain for the rule of law, the administration chose to ignore Congress and ignore the Constitution," Reid said.
A budding democracy in Iraq...
Back to page topA budding democracy in Iraq is a bit of a stretch.
And no attacks on American soil since 9/11. But didn't 9/11 happen on Bush's watch? Oh wait, I forget you're blaming Clinton for that.
Does Clinton get to blame Bush Sr. for the Trade Center bombings then?
Does Reagan get to blame Carter for the 1983 terrorist attacks in Beruit, which killed hundreds of U.S. Marines?
No, it isn't a stretch if...
Back to page topNo, it isn't a stretch if you take your head out of the liberal rags that you probably read to get your news. Read the New York Post at least once in awhile and you'll see a totally different picture of Iraq that what you get from the NY Times, the Red Star, etc. Talk to my friend and neighbor who spent over a year in Iraq helping to plan the surge that has been so successful that you barely hear the Dems talk about Iraq anymore because, that's right, we're winning! Pretty soon Hillary will be for the war again!
9/11 happened on Bush's watch so he is partly to blame, but he can't be blamed for the eight years of Clinton doing next to nothing including leaving with our tail between our legs from Somalia (see the movie "Black Hawk Down"). His response to the '93 Trade Center attacks and the Cole bombings were anemic at best and emboldened Osama and Al Quaeda to try 9/11.
At least Bush responded to 9/11, unlike the Clintoniaon approach of appeasement and more talking. People who devalue human life like Al Quaeda are not interested in talking. They are interested in killing you and me and all the "infidels". We would get more of the Clintonian appeasement with Hillary and even more pacifism with Obama. No thank you.
How do know what I listen to...
Back to page topHow do know what I listen to or read? I love listening to the 1280 The Patroit. I love to hear what Laura Ingraham, Michael Medved and Hugh Hewitt have to say. I'm not one-sided at all. Nobody will ever accuse of me that. I watch Fox News.
However, those radio personalities sould like you, trying to champion Bush and his presidency, picking out things, "Hey Libya doesn't have a nuke program." Great, Good job Mr. President.
Or, geez, you are going to take my money away. I know all us conservaties want people to make great sacrifices for the war effort, but not at the expense of my wallet. Rising deficit. More money for the war. But hey, please give me my tax breaks. I'm not sacrificing those to help fund the war.
The bar has been set so low with regards to the surge than any microscopic improvement, you raise your arms and say, " SEE, It's working. My neighbor said it was. And I've been in the miliarty - 4 years as a Marine - so I'm not going to be fooled how your neighbor thinks the surge is going. I still have friends who getting close to 20 years in the Marines and they think the entire Iraq effort has been a failure.
All you are really doing when it comes to Iraq and the failed Bush presidency is picking gnat turds out of pepper. You continue to hunt for anything you can find good, yet ignore the mountain of horrible things in the Bush era. Again, it's like picking gnat turds out of pepper. So, good luck with that.
To see how well the surge is...
Back to page topTo see how well the surge is working, you only need to listen to the lack of criticism from the Dems. The silence is deafening because they don't want to bring up a subject that works against them.
We can both find military friends who have differing opinions on the war. What matters is what is happening on the ground, and on the ground, things are getting better for the people of Iraq and Saddam is no longer in power. All the opinions in the world can't change those facts.
You may hear conservative talk radio or watch conservative TV but I don't think you are listening. Not one sided? Please, your writings in these online chats are as liberal as mine are conservative. I at least admit that my views are conservative. Don't try to mask your true colors. Embrace being a liberal. You are good at it!
President Bush is not a great President, nor is he even close to being the best President we have ever had. I admit that. I'm curious as to your lack of response to my comments on President Clinton. Maybe that is because he is indefensible in his failure to adequately respond to the rise of Al Quaeda during his presidency, his failure in Somalia and his repeatedly not being faithful to his wife, and then lying about it under oath. Did I mention that he was impeached by the House and almost impeached by the Senate? What, no comment? Your silence is deafening.
I guess if my president is...
Back to page topI guess if my president is going to lie about something, I'd rather it be about whether or not he had an affair than for it to be when making the case for the invasion of a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 and a war that has cost thousands of Americans their lives and maimed tens of thousands more.
I just find it odd that you seem more willing to help the citizens of Iraq than you do your fellow Americans. But, hey, if you think this is such a righteous war, why don't you round up your buddies and head over to Iraq and get this thing over with? I think they're accepting all applications. It shouldn't take more than 100 years. Let's git er done!!!
Oh, and when you get back, I'm assuming you'll want to go help out those being oppressed and slaughtered in North Korea, Iran, Pakistan, Cuba, Venezuela and pretty much the entire continent of Africa too, right?
Ah, a "Bush lied" guy....
Back to page topAh, a "Bush lied" guy. Perhaps you missed my post from a few weeks ago. Here are the quotes of some of your favorite politicians leading up to the Iraq war. Seems a lot of people lied!
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998
"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face." --Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983." --Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." Letter to President Clinton, signed by: -- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998
"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998
"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies." -- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999
"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." Letter to President Bush, Signed by: -- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001
"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them." -- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." -- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." -- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." -- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002
"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" -- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." -- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002
"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..." -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
All those quotes were made...
Back to page topAll those quotes were made by people who allowed Bush and Co. to dupe them. In a time of national unity, they decided to trust their president to tell them the truth. Turned out that was a big, big mistake. Live and learn, I guess.
Wow, that is a lot of...
Back to page topWow, that is a lot of gullible people! You really don't understand how these decisions are made, do you? It sounds like you think President Bush pulled Congress aside, patted them on the head and told them we were going to war and they blindly accepted. Nothing could be further from the truth! They saw the same intel that President Bush and his cabinet saw and decided we needed to go to war. If you are going to try to revise history, you should at least wait a few more years so our memories have more of a chance to fade!
And Bush and Co. handpicked...
Back to page topAnd Bush and Co. handpicked which intel would be used (and shown to Congress) and which info and opinions would be left out of the report. Anyone or anything that didn't jive with their pre-determined course of action was shoved aside. That's the whole point.
You keep clinging to your views. Whatever floats your boat. I just know all this nonsense is finally going to come to an end in nine months, and I - along with the majority of Americans - can't wait!!!!
So let's see, if a guy lies...
Back to page topSo let's see, if a guy lies about cheating with his wife under oath, that is okay. In other words, if he only lies about cheating with his wife under oath, it's okay. Did you catch that "under oath" part? That is called perjury, a federal crime in these parts. I would say a president who perjurs himself is more guilty than a president who with broad consensus from democrats and republicans goes to war over the threat of WMD to our national security. They believed the intel they had at the time without the benefit of your 20/20 hindsight.
Where did I say what Clinton...
Back to page topWhere did I say what Clinton did was OK? I said it was preferable compared to what Bush did. Big difference.
I voted for Bush Sr., and...
Back to page topI voted for Bush Sr., and didn't vote for Al Gore (Not Bush Jr. either). I throw away my vote that year as I was turned off by politics.
But the last eight years have really pushed me over to the left side of the field. Bush has been that bad. Socially, I've always leaned more left, but fiscally, over the years, I tended to go right.
I don't embrace being a liberal or conservatie. As Barak Obama says, "There are no red states. There are no blue states. There are the United States." I hate following the party line, even though I have recently.
As bad as Bush presidency has been, I'd also say Ronald Reagan was one of the top 5 presidents in this country's history. Yes, I said that. Perhaps, not for his economic plan, which are still being debated today. He was sort of dud on social issues. AIDS came along and Reagan buried his head in the sand like an Ostrich.
But Reagan brilliantly ended the Cold War and brought our hostages home from Iran. But for me, his greatest legacy is he untied a country torn apart by Vietman, 400-plus days of Iran hostages, a miserable economy, Watergate, Nixon, Agnew and Jimmy Carter's inability to lead and get results.
Reagan restored patroitism in a time when the country desperately needed it. The country yearned for it and he delivered in a big big big way, despite rising deficits and Iran Contra.
Reagan was a great uniter of Dems and Republicans and of the American people. He restored the country's self-esteem, which in turn helped lead to great economic booms. When people are happy and feel a sense of pride, good things will always follow. However, the country doesn't have that Reagan feel anymore. Bush has divided it and destroyed it.
That's why I like Barack. He has the Regan appeal. So did JFK, despite his womenizing. (But again, those are gnat turds in pepper).
And I wouldn't put Clinton in the uniting class. He's a great great poltician - one of the best ever - but to me he was not a uniter who transcended party lines like Reagan did. Like JFK. And perhaps like Obama.
McCain the uniter? Read the...
Back to page topMcCain the uniter? Read the following article. He has won the support of at least one very important person from the other side of the aisle.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120286434312263933.html?mod=hpp_us_insid...
Before I clicked onto that...
Back to page topBefore I clicked onto that story, I said, "It's Joey Lieberman."
He's cetainly a moderate - that's for sure. McCain and Joey ticket?
What a sharp contrast that would be from Gore/Joey.
I'll stick with my McCain/Pawlenty ticket for now.
Here is a story about one...
Back to page topHere is a story about one key conservative who is throwing his support behind McCain.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120301527472569037.html?mod=hpp_us_whats...
Good thoughts. Well...
Back to page topGood thoughts. Well written. We all evolve to some extent politically. Thank you for sharing how you have evolved.
Obama certainly has generated a lot of enthusiasm and optimism and other good isms mostly among Democrats but admittedly among some moderates as well. I won't even say he can't or won't win because anything is possible in this country.
A thought has occurred to me recently that we are not getting the best and the brightest to run for President anymore because it has become all about the money and party machinery. None of the choices overwhelm me with excitement, but I have to vote based on what I think is right. I think abortion is the murder of a human being, for example, so I must vote for the pro-life candidate. I voted for Rudy Perpich, a DFLer, for Governor for that reason and not for Arnie Carlson because Rudy was pro-life and Arnie was pro-choice.
As Jack Nicholson asked, "what if this is as good as it gets?". Sadly, the current crop of candidates is as good as it gets but I don't think it is the best we could get.
So if you think abortion is...
Back to page topSo if you think abortion is the murder of a human being, are you also against the death penalty? Most conservatives aren't.
Most conservatives are not...
Back to page topMost conservatives are not against the death penalty because we value human life so much that if a person takes another person's life, they should pay with their own life (i.e. eye for an eye). My own opinion on the death penalty is evolving as I read about people released from jail decades after they were convicted because the DNA evidence clears their name. If we are capable of making such a gross error in our justice system, then I think the death penalty needs to be very carefully reconsidered.
The majority of the...
Back to page topThe majority of the Republican party supports the death penalty. And some, such as yourself, still support the Iraq war despite the never-ending loss of innocent life. Seems like a big contradiction to me when compared to that whole "life is precious" philosophy.
Terrorists do not value...
Back to page topTerrorists do not value human life and so they continue to fight in Iraq even though they are losing. As a result, civilians are killed sometimes even as a result of our air strikes and other battle actions. It is called collateral damage and it is an unfortunate but timeless aspect of war. Do I prefer that civilians die in war? No, but the alternative is to cut and run and give Iraq over to the extremists and Al Quaeda who would seek to drive it back to being a totalitarian state.
Perjury is preferable to...
Back to page topPerjury is preferable to defending our country against imminent danger (as interpreted by Democrats and Republicans alike) in the form of WMD in the hands of Saddam Hussein. Hmmmmm.
You know, if you keep saying...
Back to page topYou know, if you keep saying something over and over again, that doesn't make it true.
I'm not even sure how to...
Back to page topI'm not even sure how to respond to that comment. What's next, "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me"?!? Or are you saying "don't confuse me with the facts"? The facts are that your beloved President Clinton was impeached for perjury. President Bush has no such blemish on his record.
I was referring to your...
Back to page topI was referring to your constant regurgitation of the Republican handbook when it comes to the WMD that supposedly existed and supposedly posed a threat to the United States. Just because you and the Republicans keep saying they were/are there doesn't mean it's true.