Mary Agnes, I think you may have got it. The homeowner was truly the victim in this situation. There were too many missed opportunites by the police agencies to stop their actions. The biggest one is the fact that the neighbors witnessed the police talking to the DirecTV installers before the homeowner came out of the house. If there was not a hostage situation, why was "the lady of the house" taken out of her home by gun point, handcuffed and her home searched? Savage, Prior Lake and Scott County law enforcement, along with DirecTV, all owe the homeowner and her neighbors an apolgy for their "miscommunication" in following protocol. One question I have to "Null" is were the police acting as professionals in this? Two questions I have for DirectTV is how could your dispatcher screw up so badly and should we all be afraid of having an installer in our home?

Dear Drue, You know, you...
Back to page topDear Drue,
You know, you have an excellent point...I don't like having repairmen come to the house unless my big burley husband is home. In fact, I think the cops should have taken a call that the HOUSEWIFE was being held hostage a bit more seriously than the other way around. Actually, the Direct TV guys wouldn't have even needed a gun! My plumber charges 65.00 just to get out of his truck so whose really being held hostage, mmmm??? Then he spends 20 min. explaining the history of plumbing and I have to act interested so he doesn't charge more while he extracts the remote control from our toilet!!
You know what else???I don't think the "Ma Barker" of Savage was "having a good laugh" like someone (maybe "dull", or "lull", can't remember) said in their comments. The only thing funny about any of this is why the police department hasn't formally gotten on their knees and begged forgiveness from this poor woman.
MA
Outstanding posts! Both...
Back to page topOutstanding posts! Both with information that hasn't been in any of the news stories I've followed! I can't find a news that shows that they interviewed a neighbor during the event.
In direct response to Drue: You asked if the police were acting as professionals in this. Absolutely. Let's break the analysis into two portions, the event and the follow-up.
In the first part, the danger presented to police dispatch upon hearing an armed threat (no matter by who or against who) triggers a decision to deploy a tactical team. In Savage, this is a regional team that trains on using various weapons and specific tactics until their use is as automatic as the departments can afford. (In a world without regard to budgets, every tactical team would have dedicated members.) The tactical team's first action in getting to the scene is to secure the perimiter and determine how and if they can move in. In this case, it seems they entered and handcuffed the threat and made sure all parties were safe. Once everyone is safe, the story can be sorted out and everyone released. I'd be curious about how politely they entered. In a tactical entry, things generally get pretty violent, including door and window destruction, use of flash-bangs, and some impressive weapons. If they knocked, talked (more than yelling "police"), or disjoint a bone, this civilian is fairly lucky.
On the second part, everyone here appears to be asking for an apology. I feel for the officers, because they can't apologize if they wanted to under threat of a lawsuit. Ask your insurance provider how apologizing after a car accident would impact the settlement and you'll have a much better understanding of why the department has to pull together and let the administrators do the communication.
Once again, everybody should note that I'm just a fan of police, and I've gotten my information from the Savage Pacer, Shakopee News, and Prior Lake American papers. No links to the department here, so I'm useless under supeana. :)
Now on to dear, sweet Mary. Your sarcasm shows fear, Mary. I respect your right to have your husband home when repairmen visit. My point is that should a housewife call saying that she is threatened by a repairperson with a gun, she will see pretty much the same response. However, if you enjoy turning the situation around, what should the reaction have been if the DirecTV installer was a woman?
The "Ma Barker" comment is an interesting analogy, as "Ma Barker" was never thought by officials to be a criminal. Instead, historians believe that she knew her sons were criminals, but didn't participate in or help plan any crimes. Instead, she was an innocent civilian that was caught in a gun battle between her sons and the FBI. Her innocence was backed up by Alvis Karpis, one of the gang's ringleaders, after her death even though he could have gone along with rumors to reduce his own penalty (he served 33 years in prison). A better reference would have been Aileen Wunros, who admitted to killing 7 men.
Mary, along with my informal background in police strategy and tactics, I also have an informal background in psychology, and I'm concerned for your well-being. You seem threatened by outsiders, especially with fantasies of repairmen hurting you. There seems to be a social anxiety around communicating with repair people, and probably a anger issues based on your typing and remote control hygiene issues. Finally, you appear to be hallucinating, as I haven't been able to find any reference to anyone "having a good laugh", especially myself.
Let's take a deep breath and look at the situation you put yourself in during your little story. You called a third party to help you extract a remote control from a toilet. Any third party will need to take a short break to analyze exactly what you were doing to get a remote control into the toilet. Apparently satisfied with the story you presented, this professional removed the remote and validated the appropriate water flow. Again, a third party will probably concur that the decision to give a brief history of plumbing might be in order to better assist you in understanding the appropriate use of your toilet in the future. Without a formal review, I'd say 20 minutes could explain the structure and physics of your commode to an adequate level of understanding. Finally, I'd like to direct you to a similar story of consumer electronics and plumbing which ended up costing significantly more than $65: http://www.nbc11.com/news/9364784/detail.html .
We all care, Mary. Please seek help. Some of us are even concerned that you may have split personalities.
-null.
Um...Null, dude...calm down....
Back to page topUm...Null, dude...calm down. I actually am a professional psychologist and if I were to turn the tables here I would say you took a few too many of your kid's adderall...slow down buckaroo and take a breath. And as for Ma Barker...she was a sociopath who completely dominated her two sons and was completely orchestrating their crime sprees. Where do you get your information? The back of cereal boxes? In addition, where exactly do you receive your "informal" education in psychology and police strategy? CSI??? Are you a shut in?
Speaking of remotes, put yours down and get a life, hombre. You're not a very good writer, you're not really very funny and just a TAD long winded. In fact, I skipped over 3/4 of your missive cuz I was starting to space out.
You want a diagnosis...for real? Look up the term "narcissist"...now that's some dang good reading. Peace brother, I'll leave the rest of my psychological insights for your current therapist to share with you as he or she feels appropriate.
MA
Dear Null, FYI:Re: Ma...
Back to page topDear Null, FYI:Re: Ma Barker's Boys...
I already know that Ma Barker had 4 sons, but she had total control over 2 of them, so don't respond to me and tell me what I already know in a 12 paragraph response.
Nighty Night!
MA
Mary, it's nice to see your...
Back to page topMary, it's nice to see your tone has changed. You seem kind of threatened by me now - let's try to go back to the real topic in the future. My mental health and plumbing are well taken care of.
So why did I jump into this lovely little conversation? First, I'm incensed that others started the flame war when the police involved can't participate. The officers that these posts have insulted with "Mayberry" comments still have to go out every day and face a long list of risks. From my "CSI" education (as you described it), I have a respect for these officers and the dangers they have to face.
Why else post in this forum? You are entertaining to me. It's narcissistic, but it's fun. Come on, the remote in the toilet? That's gold.
So... about your points (kept short to avoid your limitations):
- No medications for the kid, no signs of ADHD. Thanks Doc. Job well done.
- Double check the Ma Barker stories, anything in about the last 20 years says she was at most an accomplice. It's easy to start here: http://www.crimelibrary.com/gangsters_outlaws/outlaws/karpis/1.html.
- In your critique of my writing, you missed that I misspelled subpoena.
- Thanks for the diagnosis. It's good to think that you try to help people, even though you can't keep the remote out of the toilet.
-null
Dear Nully, I am so far from...
Back to page topDear Nully,
I am so far from threatened by you that I've changed my diagnosis for you to delusional. Although my diagnosis of your mental state has changed, my tone has not. I still think the police acted like small town, trigger happy, swat team wanna be's and the whole town of Savage should move to another city out of pure embarassment.
On the subject of your plumbing...uh...no one was talking about your plumbing. Ok, my new diagnosis is narcissistic/delusional because only a true narcissist would take my charming plumbing story and make it about him!
About Ma Barker...ok jr. psychologist...tell me how 4 boys become cold, ruthless killers who travel with their mother, give her all their money and are completely under her control are simply the sons of a loving and clueless mother??? God, haven't you learned anything from your crimesofthecentury/ganstas-outlawswhatever.com
studies?
Null, face it...this attack on poor whats her name is embarassing. Maybe you have a son on the force or something, or even a grandson, but please...give it up!!! Say Uncle!!! Your pinned like a dead butterfly...just admit defeat!!! You KNOW you're threatened by me and are totally projecting your insecurity. Dude, it's so obvious that I am your intellectual superior and have this whole Savage vs. Innocent Housewife deal completely figured out.
Oh, and who gives a s*** how you spell suhpeaonah??? No one!!! :)
I win.
Not that I'm competing, cuz I'm not.
Sister Mary Agnes
Wow. You know, your...
Back to page topWow. You know, your emotional tirade brings up an interesting point - if she wigged out like you have, the police could have stepped up the use of force and pulled out the taser.
If you're interested in continuing the logical discussion, let's address the "embarassing" comment. Is this whole post about embarassment of the woman? Yes, I'd agree that she would be embarrassed after an event like that. No, you're wrong that the police should be embarrassed for a reaction that led to zero injuries (other than bruised pride all the way around) and let everyone go home safely that night.
Again, I'm not related to anyone in police work. Check the posts on the original thread, that was all stated Sunday.
Let's look at the original situation: The woman involved was a teacher, so what should the police reaction have been if she was in a room with a student, and the school office thought the student had a gun? Then the police action would have been viewed as appropriate. If this was a man and a female DirecTV installer reported she was threatened with a gun, again folks wouldn't have a question about the level of the reaction. What if the female homeowner was intoxicated, or had mental health issues and went off her medications? Once again, this would be viewed an appropriate level of force. The issue appears to be that there was a woman in the house who was taken into custody, and folks can't picture a woman (especially her) as a threat. Sorry, but the police just don't know on their way out to the call, and with the report that someone has a gun, this was the appropriate reaction for the police to determine that the report was inaccurate.
But, as you seem to enjoy personal attacks: Mary, you claim to be a professional psychologist and a "sister", but you seem to have about a 13 year old writing capability, a challenge making it through 12 paragraphs, and apparently this string of posts is more than a bit under your skin. While I'm glad my "Cliff's Notes" style helped in the last post, you ought to focus as you're not doing a good job convincing readers of your argument (or credentials, or sanity). Please try to keep your reply to a single rant.
Rant. ...
Back to page topRant.
Dear Null, please try and...
Back to page topDear Null, please try and find the first article that came out in the Pacer. I think you are missing our frustration with this case. Once the Savage Police Department figured out it was a bad game of telephone (their words), Detective Dave Muelken is quoted as saying everyone had a good laugh afterwards. Tell me that alone doesn't warrant an apology?
I am friends with officers from different cities. They have shared some similar situations with me. If they did need to secure the perimeter and then realized it was a miscommunication, they said their job would be to take some time and explain the situation that occurred, apologize, and calm the victim before they left the scene. None of this occurred. The homeowner was left frightened, shaken, and confused. Her neighbor tried to help her make sense of what just happened and calm her. The officers had already secured the area when they spoke to the DirecTV installers BEFORE the homeowner came out of her house. In other words, there was no need for a tactical team to be deployed.
I do agree with you that the SPD has done a wonderful job in keeping the community safe, but they made a big mistake and need to take some responsibility.
Being new to the website (I...
Back to page topBeing new to the website (I just signed up as an online user) I found this thread amusing. So much written about ONE incident that was possibly not handled as it should have been but NOTHING written about the over 300 incidents the Savage Police Department responds to on a weekly basis. I find myself wondering why anyone in your community would want to serve on a police force that is so rapidly and loudly critized for a single incident but receives no editorial comments based on positive events.
I personally applaud the Savage Police Department (and this comes from direct and personal experience). Come to Dallas Texas. Now there you will have ample writing material about a police force that cares little for the people they protect in comparison to how the Savage Police force cares for y'all.
It's nice to see your tone...
Back to page topIt's nice to see your tone has changed. You seem kind of threatened by me now
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